A response to Joe Ventilacion’s THE TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION: TRUTH OR FALLACY?

by Gabby Lopez

Joe Ventilacion is a well know debater in the INC and I recognized his capabilities of conditioning the mind of his listeners which almost made me convinced of what he is saying. In fact, he is the first debater of INC that know while looking for INC debate in youtube 3 years ago. He helped a lot to understand the teaching of INC and my curiosity of their reasoning against the Catholic Doctrine. Recently, an INC member brought up writing of Joe Ventilacion which I have not read before. It is a 3,000-plus-word article that is supposed to disprove the Catholic doctrine of Holy Trinity and the Incarnation which you can read here: THE TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION: TRUTH OR FALLACY?

Joe first shared that many people misunderstood their teaching and accused them of belittling Lord Jesus. I’ve noticed that the first few paragraphs are trying to prove that Jesus was Man. He also brought up some peoples experiences before they become Iglesia ni Cristo that used to believe that Jesus is God and they ultimately believe that Jesus is a man after they were presented with a biblical basis. He is saying it as if to let anyone think that the Catholic Church was only teaching that Jesus was God and the not a man.  Regardless of how many years Joe is opposing the Catholic Doctrine he still fails to distinguish the difference between INC teachings and Catholic teachings about Jesus’ nature.

“We are aware that Jesus is Man.”

Joe gives so much important in assertion that Jesus is Man rather than proving that Christ is not God. Obviously, those people who were converted to INC after asking questions in the INC are ignorant of the Catholic Doctrine. This is one of the problems with INC reasoning when it comes to the belief about Jesus’ nature, they fail to recognize the doctrine of Catholic Church that Jesus is Man. Catholics believe that Jesus is one person that posses two nature: human and divine, this makes Jesus as a divine person. Since Jesus is a person with two natures, Jesus is both Man and God. Whether Mr. Ventilacion accept or reject his, he should recognize that this is what the Catholic Church is teaching about the nature of Jesus. And bringing up biblical proof that Jesus is man is good but a waste in trying to prove that Catholic Church is wrong for we also agree to that. Jesus is MAN! AMEN!

“Jesus is a man, therefore, he is not God.”?

This is what follows in the minds of listeners of Joe. However, “Jesus is man therefore he is not God” is a wrong conclusion to come up with even if they bring up: Hos 11:9, Jn 4:24 and Luke 24:39. Before anyone decides to use that conclusion he must first know about nature. To simply say it, natures answers the question ‘what’. Man posses a human nature and God posses a divine nature. Natures are normally taken from parents for example, the son of dog is dog, the son of a cat is cat and surely, the son of God is God. However, Jesus did not have a human father so He could not be a human only. The substance of the body of Jesus was provided from the substance of Blessed Mary.  This is one of the examples that INC failed to or decided not to teaching among their members about natures and therefore they are misleading about the nature of Christ.

Now let’s consider the passages they used to deny the dual nature of Christ:

Hos 11:9 “..For I am God, and not a man”. Since Jesus is Man it seems that this verse gives the impossibility of Jesus as God but that is not true. INC failed to consider that this passage was written before Christ was born here on earth, it is the time when his Son did not assume the human nature yet. To have a rough analogy it is like saying I’m 15 years old, but of course years later will never be the same. It does not mean that God change, God remained as spirit in the person of the Father, just as God remained as saviour in the person of the Son.

Jn 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth”. Since God is spirit and Jesus is a man, is he no longer qualified as God? Not entirely true for God as spirit remains true in the person of the Father, Jesus recognizes God as a spirit for he is also a man and since man is under God that’s why Jesus also prays to the Father.

Luke 24:39 “Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Jesus is not trying to say here “See I have flesh and bones but God is spirit so I am not God, “The true context of this verse shows that Jesus indeed resurrected. Jesus here is trying to convince that he is not an apparition, but he indeed resurrected. This verse is not supposed to show up since it is an inevitable fact that Jesus is a man, and man has flesh and bones.

Here are two verses that should prove to everyone that Jesus does not only posses human nature

Philippians 2:6-8:
"...though he was by nature GOD, did not consider being equal to GOD a thing to be clung to,
but emptied Himself, taking the nature of a slave and being made like unto men.
And appearing in the form of man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death, even to death on a cross."

Elucidation of Philippians 2:6-8;
1. He was by nature GOD.
2. He took the nature of a slave (man).
3. He was made like unto men.

 4. He appeared in the form of man. If he is already man, why take a form which he already is?

Apostles believed that Christ was a man, and that belief still exists in the Catholic Church. What the INC taught that Jesus is only a man and not God is not what the Apostles taught but Felix Manalo’s private interpretation. INC might deny that they believe Jesus is only a man because they believe that Jesus is a very special man, but the subject is about the nature of Christ, not attributes. INC may only believe that Christ has one or two natures and since INC believe that Jesus has only one nature then it is only right to say that INC believes that Jesus is only a man (not God).

“If he were God, he could have said so when he was still here on earth”

It seems the INC beliefs are the only things that Jesus was speaking vocally such as he is man. Paul already gave the reason why Jesus did not ever say “I AM GOD” vocally. Paul describe Christ was doing “...Though he was by nature GOD, did not consider being equal to GOD a thing to be clung to”. Jesus gave us an example of humility and wants us to imitate his humility. Telling everyone that he is God would spoil his purpose of being an example of a humble man. That is why Christ sometimes addresses himself as the Son of Man instead of Son of God.

Hypostatic Union is grossly Unbiblical?

The oldest known icon of Christ Pantocrator - Saint Catherine's Monastery. The two different facial expressions on either side emphasize Christ's dual nature as both divine and human

Joe is really good in labelling the doctrines of the Catholic Church with fancy descriptions. Joe has huge guts in saying that there are no biblical verses that proves the Catholic Doctrines defined in the Church Councils instead of brining up how Catholic Church explained their doctrine and refute it. Is it really unbiblical or Joe just refused to bring up verses that prove the hypostatic union for his deception? Hypostatic Union is the mystery of the union of the divine nature of Christ with His human nature. Christ has two minds and two wills, united in the Divine Word. Fortunately, INC and Catholics both agree that Christ posses a human nature and he is man, so there will be and there should no dispute about that subject. The divine nature of Christ can be deduced in Jn 1:1"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD; and the Word was GOD." 'In the beginning was', implies time, since eternity has no beginning, and it has no ending. "The Word", was already in existence when GOD created time in Genesis 1:1-5. Consequently, the Word existed before the beginning of time, He thus being outside of time. The Word already 'was' in the beginning. The Word is therefore eternal. Joe may bring up a version that suits their favor because the Bible becomes the dependent of their doctrine. That version states the verse as “Word was divine”. Even if that version replaced the word “God” with “divine”, the irrefutable fact that the Word existed before time and being eternal in this single verse proves that Christ who is the Word of God posses a divine nature therefore, God.

“The Word is Just A Plan”! 

The cry of INC when they are presented with John 1:1. But if the Word is just a concept, a mere idea, or a plan, the proper pronoun should have been “It” not “He”.  John fully knows that the Word is a Person, for in verse 1:10, John refers to the “true light” as a “He”, a real person: “He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him. He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him” (Jn 1:10-11). Thus, if John refers to the true light as a “He” and to the Word also as a He, and this Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14), then there is no doubt that John really refers to the Word as a person and not a mere concept.

The very powerful verse that gives me so much confidence about the divine nature of Christ is when the Bible states the fact that Christ from heaven and those who came from heaven is ABOVE ALL!:

John 8: 23 “But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”

1 Cor 15:47 “The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.”

John 3:31 “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. ” emphasis

Teaching that Jesus is not God defies the verses above that gives so much clarity about Jesus.

“THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! Jn 17:1,3”

“ ... 'Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your Son, so that the Son may give glory to you ... And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent"

This is the main passage where INC get the idea that Jesus could not be God since even Christ in his prayer was teaching the Father is the only true God, therefore Jesus could not be God. This is how shallow INC can only understand the meaning of Christ prayer and making this passage as basis Gods true nature without considering the other verses. INC failed to realize it is more than that. 

First of all, the text speaks about the glorification of the Father by the Son, and the Son by the Father (v 1).

Secondly, it speaks about the son having authority over all human beings and having the power to give eternal life (v2)

Thirdly, it speaks about the fact that knowing the one true God is inseparable from knowing Jesus Christ.

According to Hilary, Christ says, “you the only true God”, in a way that does not exclude another. He does not say without qualification, you the only, but adds and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. It is like saying: that they know you and Jesus Christ whom you have sent to be the one and only true God. This is a pattern of speaking that we also use when we say [in the Gloria]: “You alone, Jesus Christ, are the most high, together with the Holy Spirit.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit because whenever the Father and the Son are mentioned, and especially in matters pertaining to the grandeur of the divinity, the Holy Spirit, who is the bond of the Father and Son, is implied.

 According to St. Augustine, the Apostle said that “Christ [is] the power of God and the Wisdom of God” (1 Cor 1:24). Now it is clear that we cannot call anyone God unless he has divine power and wisdom. Therefore, since these people held that the Father was wisdom, which is the Son, they held further that the Father considered without the Son would not be God. And the same applies to the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Now let us not forget that the Holy Trinity states that there are three persons in ONE GOD. When Jesus prayed to the Father it does not mean Jesus was speaking to himself or prayed to himself as what Joe believed what it means. Christ as a separate person prayed to the Father for he is also man. Christ who posses’ divine nature and human nature also performs things that only God can do and things that man usually do. Here are some of the attributes of the two natures of Christ:

As GOD in His Divine Nature	As Man in His Human Nature
He is eternally begotten, Gen 1:1-5, Jn 1:1.	He was born into time, Lk 2:7.
He is worshiped, Mt 2:2,11, 14:33.	He worshiped the Father, Jn 17:1-26.
He was called God, Jn 20:28, Heb 1:8.	He was called man Mk 15:39, Jn 19:5.
He was called Son of God, Mk 1:1.	He was called Son of Man, Jn 9:35-37.
He is prayed to, Act 7:59.	He prayed to the Father, Mt 26:39.
He is sinless, 1Pet 2:22, Heb 4:15.	For our sake He made him to be sin, 2Cor 5:21.
He knows all things, Jn 21:17.	He grew in wisdom, Lk 2:52.
He gives eternal life, Jn 10:28.	He died, Rom 5:8.
He is the fullness of deity, Col 2:9.	He has a flesh and bone body, Luke 24:39.

“Image of God, not God”?

According to Joe, Jesus is the image of God and the image or picture is not the very nature of what it represents but this is not entirely true. According to St. Augustine, the image of a thing may be found in something in two ways. In one way it is found in something of the same specific nature; as the image of the king is found in his son. In another way it is found in something of a different nature, as the king's image on the coin. In the first sense the Son is the Image of the Father; in the second sense man is called the image of God; and therefore in order to express the imperfect character of the divine image in man, man is not simply called the image, but "to the image," whereby is expressed a certain movement of tendency to perfection. But it cannot be said that the Son of God is "to the image," because He is the perfect Image of the Father.

“Hypostatic Union was invented by the Church Council, not from the Bible!”

Surprise! Church Councils are biblical so does the hypostatic union. Though some people are quite surprised that some Catholic Doctrines are formulated by several councils, most INC members are not aware that such councils are biblical. Church Council exercising their authority is well written in Acts 15. The scene in Acts 15 was about some people who were teaching that “..Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.”(Acts 15:1-2) This is to clarifying whether the Mosaic Law is still to be followed by Christians. Though the apostles had so much debate and discussion, decisions about the matter is still to be decided by the council by not a sole person who hides in a dim lit room and after three days and three night, he came up with a doctrine and believed to be the only correct interpretation of the Bible like what the leader and founder of Iglesia ni Cristo, Felix Manalo did. Not only he defied the warning of St. Peter (2 Pet 1:20) about private interpretation, he came up with doctrines with his own interpretation of the Bible without any authority prior to what he interprets in the Bible as his so-called authority to preach for he is a messenger of God in these last days. Church Councils are only exercising their authority as the successors of the Apostles, “to bind and loose” Matt 18:18. And usually there are these people who introduce certain teachings that bring up confusions among Christians just like what happened in Acts 15 before a Church Council defines an official doctrine. Some people may pronounce the teachings defined in the council as unbiblical for they only became official after many years but it is what Christ have foreseen.

Doctrinal development is the on going teaching by the Holy Spirit to the only Church which Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church. Holy Scripture makes this abundantly clear:

"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."
John 16:12-13 (emphasis)

These are powerful verses. We must examine them closely. Did you notice the futuristic tone in them? The word "will" indicates an emerging and ongoing process and with not a hint of an ending, and how many times was it repeated in just those two verses?

The first sentence implies that knowledge cannot come all at once, but slowly over time, simply because the wonders of GOD cannot be digested all at once by our puny human minds.

The last part is self-explanatory when it says, "things that are to come", obviously more future tense.

Here is more on the all-important second sentence which clearly says that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church into all the truth. That statement excludes tens of thousands of churches simply because truth is one. Only one Church could possibly have all the truth.

Thus, Holy Scripture, the Word of Jesus Christ Himself, has clearly laid the foundation for greater understanding of revealed truth over time.

In summary, calling the Catholic Doctrines unbiblical is just caused by lack of study on the Catholic Doctrine or total denial of proofs. There are a lot of INC member there who feels they have acquired a tantamount of knowledge about Catholicism and the Bible when the fact is they never have. No doubt that this was caused by attending a doctrine class in INC. Doctrines of the Catholic Church have explanation with Biblical proofs and this proof cannot be acquired by attending Bible study in INC or doctrine class. Biblical evidence for Catholicism was well explained by numerous Catholic Apologists and Saints whose work and writings are available online and they are more reliable than Felix Manalo. Catholics should be confident in defending the Catholic without fear for we always have answers to these detractors for hundreds of years.

Here are some few links where I have been studying the Catholic Faith:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Catholic Answer
The Catholic Treasure Chest by Bob Stanly
Summa Theologica by St. Augustine

[Typography and grammar error may be found. I would like to give thanks to Mr. Quirino Bob Stanly and the CFD which I may have quoted their statements. Just inform me so that I may give you credits,]

A Review: "The Fact and Process of Apostasy"

An unofficial INC blog has posted a long argument about Apostasy. It is one of the well documented article about INC arguments. It might also be the same arguments ministers can provide. This is from a blog post in theiglesianicristo.blogspot.com and see how it is dissected and refuted.